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InqBantoo
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Inviato: Gio Apr 26, 2007 10:23:51 Oggetto: CHAOS SPACE MARINES - Primi rumors SEMI ufficiali

mio dio... mi è appena passata la voglia di fare il caos..
niente + eserciti divisi, niente basilisk per gli IW, come per gli eldar ognuno schiera quello che vuole e sta a lui fare una lista "a tema", i marchi molto semplificati...
ma sono rincretiniti????
gabbo hai ancora un po' di tempo per dare via tutto!!!! :'(

almeno esce il nuovo vindicator in plastica!!!! big grin

che pena....

Ok, I got to take a look at the codex today. (I will not bother telling you how since unless I posted a picture of it, you wouldn't believe anyway and maybe not even then). You can believe or not, it's no skin off my teeth one way or another.

Here are a few highlights:

-Marks are simpler, ie Khorne gives +1 attack, Slaanesh +1 Initiative, Nugle +1 Toughness, and Tzeentch +1 armor save and a 5+ invulnerable save.

-Troops - there are normal marines as troops as well as legion specific ones. Only the legion specific marines get access to legion specific weapons.

- Havocs can take marks but only get normal weapons (i.e. no blastmaster havoc squads for EC anymore).

- There are no mark restrictions on taking units. This means you could have a Khorne lord, a squad of noise marines, Nurgle Havocs , a squad of Obliterators (which are now Heavy Support) and a Vindicator.

- Yup, the Vindicator has been added as an option for everyone and the Basilisk for Iron Warriors is removed entirely.

-To make up for this, Dreads move to Elites so if you IW players want to pack in the heavy weapons you still can.

New models:
-I got to see one of the new plastic terminators in the flesh and it looks pretty cool. Though the trophy spikes on the shoulders were a bit long for my tastes, the rest of the model was very well done. About the same size as the new plastic Marine terminators, this will make a lot of people very happy.

From the pictures in the book:
- The new plastic Posessed look much cooler than the current ones (not that that is much of a feat).

- The new Raptor lord is a lot more dynamic and, though I only saw the picture for a bit, seems a bit more in proportion and not as cartoony.

-The new plastic Chaos Lord is absolutely amazing. It has a ton of cool bits and can be made to look like any one of the chaos powers and they all looked good. All the options here will keep the converters buy for a long time to come.

-The plastic Vindicator is almost exactly like the Forgeworld one with maybe a few minor changes. I'm not totally familiar with the FW model, so suffice it to say they look basically the same to me.

-Finally, there is a new plastic spawn kit that comes with enough bits to make two full spawn. One of them looks really cool with no head and a big eye in its chest. The other I didn't look at as much because the first one was so pretty, but it was much closer to the "lots of random appendages" we are used to.

....

Oh, one more, since I am putting together Emporer's Children, I made it a point to look up their stuff.

One really good thing is that that fixed the Doom Siren to just be a flamer with no hand requirement. No more Doomfists, thank god.

Also the Slaanesh psychic power is just sick. If you past a psychic test, you can pick a unit (I think within 24", might be less, I don't remember for sure) and you can move it 2d6" in any direction.

.....

There aren't 'Legions' per se anymore. You can simply add a noise marine squad or a plague marine squad to any army. Night Lords would just be Marines with skills. An Iron Warriors army would simply be one that focuses on heavy weapons.

The only thing I saw that would indicate future supplemental releases was a marked decrease in the wargear options. Now, this may simply be a case of paring down the stuff that was overpowered, not usable, etc. but this is also in line with GW's new "make your specific army from a single more generic list" idea like what we have saw with the Eldar.

My opinion here, the only way that I see specific codex lists like you mentioned is if the Blood Angels thing is a real hit and GW decides to bolster White Dwarf sales by making it the preferred vehicle for releasing short lists like that. Otherwise I think it's up to the individual player to make the army fit the Fluff rather than have it dictated by the codex.

------

Allright I got what he was saying even if no one else did.

1. Their will NOT be ANY cult lists eithier in the upcoming codex or in a seperate book/s.

2. Legion troops are now avalibile to anyone and are bassiclly marked CSM with an extra add on taced on. For example, (i'm guessing here, nothing officiol), sonic weapons for Slanesh ones, or Chainaxes for Khorne, or 2 wounds for Tzeenetch, or True Grit for Nurgle.

Thats the lot for your legions, apart from 1 Legion specific troops type each your stuck with only basic marked marines with the standered options.

3. Most of your wargear has gone meanin very littile customizing is possibbile with any of your HQ's, including Lords, Luteinents, and DP's.

At a geuss I would say the layout will be similar to Codex Tyranids. For deamon weapons I expect one unique deamon weapon for each mark, plus 1 generic one that anyone can have.

......

He did say yes. Ordinary marked marines won't be able to get Sonic Blasters was one thing he explicitly mentioned. So they're getting diffrent options their. I doubt however that they'll get a diffrent armoury selection.

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hmmm : here's what I've been told.

marks for normal troops are : K+1A. S+1I,N+1T,T=5+invuln save.

The Full cult troops ( world eaters, 1000 sons etc ) : WE= furious charge, 1oos sons= 4+ invulnerable save, option of ap3 inferno bolts, and are led by a sorceror who ( just the sorcerpr HQ choice ) comes with a force weapon. Oh, if he dies then their slow & purp. roll drops to 1d6. Deathguard=feel no pain....and Emps. children.....sorry, minds gone blank.

Oblits are heavy: supposedly they might be due to the techno organic virus OR they might be fallen/corrupted techmarines/adepts, who tap into the warp in some way. Down to S & T 4, and lose projectile type weapons ( heavy bolter etc) but can shoot pretty much any energy weapon --plasma-both,multi-both, flamer etc etc.

Ahriman has all the powers and a force weapon. think Abaddon can take all his attaks with his bif *&^% off sword however think it "only" wounds with no save now !

Chosen as elites are a separate slot from termies, think chosen get infiltrate-might get other options, they're similar to vets. from the DA.

Think daemonic possession was the same but dropped BS down to 3.

EDIT : oh yes, think ALL marines come with bolt gun, pistol and CC weapon as standard as well.

.....

As far as I've heard there is no lost & upset in the book at all in any way shape or form.

However if the daemons are removed--from what I hear they keep hpkey-kokeying around with them--then ( seeing as there are plastic daemons on the way and it wouldn't be too hard too put round and square bases in the boxes would it ) I'd expect a codex : cultist or codex : daemonic legion at some point in the not too distant future. Hell, look at the Blood Angels ! We might even see a list in White Dwarf or something !

Other points ;

yup, armoury as such has gone--upgrades are listed for each entry. welcome to the future. From what I have heard Hq options are : lord, prince or sorceror. All with their own options and variants--wings are an option for prince for example. Bizarrely this does seem to leave it so that ( special characters aside) you can't have a bezerker or a plague marine leading a World eater/death guard force, merely a lord with the mark of Khorne/nurgle .
No basilisk, but vindicator is their though .
Yes, does seem to say you could shoot and then have 2 weapons in assault--removes need for Death Guard getting true grit I suppose.
No idea with regards to powers, rot etc etc. Sorry

.....

Ok, gonna try to answer as best can.

Originally Posted by Promethius
Just a quick question Storch: did you notice cultists in the army list, or are they not making an appearance?

- Don't remember seeing cultists.

Originally Posted by reds8n
hmmm : here's what I've been told.
marks for normal troops are : K+1A. S+1I,N+1T,T=5+invuln save.

- I distinctly remember the +1 to armor save for Tzeench because it had a line about "to a minimum of 2+".

Originally Posted by reds8n
The Full cult troops ( world eaters, 1000 sons etc ) : WE= furious charge, 1oos sons= 4+ invulnerable save, option of ap3 inferno bolts, and are led by a sorceror who ( just the sorcerpr HQ choice ) comes with a force weapon. Oh, if he dies then their slow & purp. roll drops to 1d6. Deathguard=feel no pain....and Emps. children.....sorry, minds gone blank.

- For the Thousand Sons, the squad leader is automatically a Sorcerer and the Inferno bolts are an upgrade. Didn't really read the HQ choices, so no idea on the force weapon.

Originally Posted by reds8n
However if the daemons are removed--from what I hear they keep hpkey-kokeying around with them--then ( seeing as there are plastic daemons on the way and it wouldn't be too hard too put round and square bases in the boxes would it ) I'd expect a codex : cultist or codex : daemonic legion at some point in the not too distant future. Hell, look at the Blood Angels ! We might even see a list in White Dwarf or something !

- It's not that daemons are removed, it's just that they are generic and have one stat line. There is no separate entry for Bloodletters or Daemonettes or Screamers or whatever anymore. Sadly, the same is true for the greater daemons as well. Much more generic. On the upside, I don't believe either takes up space on the force org chart any more.

Originally Posted by reds8n
yup, armoury as such has gone--upgrades are listed for each entry. welcome to the future. From what I have heard Hq options are : lord, prince or sorceror. All with their own options and variants--wings are an option for prince for example. Bizarrely this does seem to leave it so that ( special characters aside) you can't have a bezerker or a plague marine leading a World eater/death guard force, merely a lord with the mark of Khorne/nurgle .

- Two things here, those look right for the HQ choices and there is more to it when discussing the armory. I don't want to give the impression that there are no choices. Far from it. It's just that a lot of the armory entries got rolled into the individual entries. For example, I remember Noise Marines come with krak and frag standard. I know it's a small example, but a lot of the more basic armory entries seem to just be included so it appears, at first glance, like there are less options when, in fact, you are just getting more without having to explicitly choose every little thing.
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