CHAOS SPACE MARINES - Primi rumors SEMI ufficiali

[InqBantoo]

Stirpe sgrava forever!!! speriamo... così spakko tutti!!!!
Cmq è vero anche nurgle sembra venire fuori massiccio... pure troppo!!!
Gli altri mi lasciano + dubbioso invece, specialmente korne
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[GabBorg]

Ultime news

Generic Points:
- Daemon summoning to remain basically the same
- All daemonic gifts are gone
- most god specific wargear is gone... Though the armoury is gone only in the sense of there being one huge page of stuff to take. Now all the options it would have contained are in each individual unit entry for easier use. According to the source of these rumours, the Chaos Lord entry is similar to the Carnifex entry, with nearly 3/4's of the page given over to all the options he can take. Chaos Lords have apparently just as much choice as before if not a little more.
- Veteran skill upgrades are gone
- books of chaos are gone
- no special rules for any specific legion
- Chaos are NOT getting the combat rules. Squads have simply 5-20 Marines, allowing anything in between like 6 Chaos Marines or 14, BUT to get the second Special weapon or Heavy weapon it is required a minimum numbers of models per squad (10 Chaos Marines).
- Marks/Icons work as follows Khorne +1A, Tzeentch 5+ invul save or +1 to existing invul save, Slaanesh +1I, Nurgle +1T. The units which can take them are identified as such below.
- The Icon of Chaos Undivided has been confirmed. It is called something like "Icon of the Glory of Chaos".
- Daemon weapons are generic, simply give +1S and +D6 attacks, but if a 1 is rolled something bad happens
- NEW: there ARE god weapons. Khorne weapon becomes +2D6 hits, the Nurgle one always wounds on a 4+, the Tzeentch weapon is a S4 or 5, AP3 storm bolter or similar (wasn't super clear on this one but basically said it was a better Kai gun), and the Slaanesh one causes instant death regardless of wounds (he thought this applied to Nids as well). They are also counted as 2 handed weapons.
- daemonic steeds do exist, simply giving IC's which are given them stat bonuses. A juggernaught of Khorne gives the character +1S and +1A, but he takes up 2 spots in a land raider. Others include tzeentch discs, steeds of slaanesh, and nurgle palanquins (rumoured to provide +1W and +1A).
- most troops come with a bolter, bolt pistol, ccw, and frag and krak grenades as standard (yes, all of those)
- Rhinos reduced in points cost, as in the Dark Angels codex.
- Vehicle upgrades ARE still in the book. Most are the same as now however, Daemonic Possession has been slightly altered (didn't say how) and Mutated Hull is completely removed. (thanks Wraithlord! )
- Apparently Icons will act as teleport homers for daemons, deep-striking terminators and obliterators. (stated by Venerable Dred on the B&C).


NOTE: there are no cult units beyond those listed in the troops section. For example, the only plague marines are the "plague marines" unit entry in the troops section. You cannot take plague marine havocs or plague marine terminators. You can give terminators the mark of Nurgle, but they only gain +1T, they do not get FNP or blight grenades. This is true for all 4 gods.

HQ
Lord
- comes with daemonic aura as standard
- can be marked

Sorcerer
- can be marked,
- there is one god specific psychic power for each god (except Khorne) and many of the existing psychic powers remain
- new power 'warp time' allows re-rolls to hit and to wound in close combat
- nurgles rot acts like a pandemic staff
- bolt of change is AP1

Daemon prince
- may be marked
- may have pychic powers
- Deamon Princes are all S6, T5 now and are immune to instant kill. The rumours of the gifts they have already posted were pretty much dead on with the Prince having the option to buy wings and maybe a couple other things. Cannot take deamon weapons but apparantly make up for it in just sheer power on their own. Cost before the few upgrades allowed is -just- above 100 or so apparantly. (thanks Wraithlord! ). One of the sources reports the DP as having WS7.


Generic Greater Daemon
- does not take HQ slot
- does not fly
- CANNOT be marked
- Greater daemons have generic stats. Reported WS9, Str8, In5.


Typhus
- has the nurgles rot power without a psychic test
- has daemon weapon that is also a force weapon

Abaddon
-Talon/Drachn'yen now one weapon. Counts as a Daemon weapon (DW's are a generic weapon now, all grant +D6 attacks and +1S, but if a 1 is rolled you cannot attack) but it doubles his Strength and you can re-roll failed hits and wounds.

Arihman
- can use 3 psychic powers a turn including force staff
- knows all the chaos psychic powers except the god-specific Slaanesh and Nurgle powers

Kharn
- more or less the same as he is in the current dex except:
- gorechild has 2D6 penetration vs. vehicles
- he's immune to all psychic powers.
- WS 8? maybe?

Lucious

Fabius Bile

Huron Blackheart
-Tyrant's claw is a powerfist with built in heavy flamer.
-Hamadyra grants him the "Warp Time" psychic power (WT allows you to re-roll all failed hits and wounds in HTH)

ELITE
Possessed
- have a randomly generated ability (nothing, fleet, power weapons, furious charge, rending, feel no pain)

Terminators
- one reaper autocannon
- may all be upgraded to aspiring champions with +1A
- can be marked
- squads can be 3+ models

Chosen
- only unit with infiltrate
- can be marked
- many options, a bit like DA's Veterans

Dreadnoughts
- may be given 2ccw
- frenzy table still exists but is slightly changed

TROOPS
Chaos space marines
- can be marked
- min size need for some weapon upgrades
- aspiring champion limited to basic wargear upgrades (PW, PF, PP)

Khorne Beserkers
- have the +1A over normal marines, WS5 and furious charge
- no bloodfrenzy or chainaxes

Plague Marines
- +1T, blight grenades (-1A to enemies engaged in hth), feel no pain

Noise Marines/Emperors children
- +1I and access to sonic weapons
- doomsiren AP3
- blastmaster on max power is a small blast krak missile

Thousand Sons
- slow and purposeful on 1 dice
- AP 3 bolters (inferno bolts)
- 4+ invul save
- only 1 wound
- sorcerer sergeant with 2 psychic powers, but no power fist option, and allows 2d6 for slow and purposeful

Generic Lesser Daemons
- do not take up a troop slot
- CANNOT take marks

FAST ATTACK
Raptors
- no more hit and run
- can be marked
- price reduced

Spawn
- may be beasts/cavalry
- do NOT take up a Fast Attack slot

NO Daemon beast units

Bikers
- can be marked

HEAVY SUPPORT
Obliterators
- CANNOT be marked (heard somewhere on the net, highly contested)
- S and T 4
- no longer 0-1
- possibly lose power fists for power weapons (contested)
- possibly only access energy weapons, not ballistic weapons (ie lascannons but not bolters)

Vindicator
- currently highly contested between two sources

Land Raider

Predator

Defiler
- no more indirect fire
- WS3
- A3
- can trade in some of its shooting weapons for more CCW having up to 6A
- can be given fleet (probably it will be a default upgrade)
- loses the status of Monstruous Creature, but gains S10

Havocs
- Can be marked


******FUTURE CODEX RUMOURS******:

- There WILL be a codex down the road that focuses on cultists, Latd, and daemons which is where you will see the return of the daemons we all know and love now.

link per altre rumors vari :
http://www.warseer.com/forums/showthread.php?t=86398
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[Sisma]

Mah... i Demoni Maggiori generici... che porcata! per non parlare delle abilità veterane!!! mah.... e a me va anche fatta bene!
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Il motto di oggi è:
BAZINGA!!!

[GabBorg]

Già.... i veterani poi non parliamone!!!!

Qualcosina c'è di buono, però hanno davvero stravolto tutto.
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[ivan]

ULTIMI AGGIORNAMENTI

[GabBorg]

- Chaos Lord (no limit in number, you can have 0, 1 or 2)
Stats like current one. Cost unknown
Wargear:
- CCW + BP
- daemonic Aura (5+ invulnarable)
Options:
- can exchange the CCW+BP with a Daemonic Weapon (+D6 attacks, twohanded power-weapon)
........- when you roll a 1 for the additional attacks, you lose one wound and the lord cant attack (also counts for shooting)
........- unmarked Bonus: +1S
........- Khorne-Bonus: +2D6 instead of +1D6
........- Slaanesh-Bonus: Autokill
........- Tzeentch-Bonus: can also shoot with the following profile:S4, AP 3, Assault W6
........- Nurgle-Bonus: wounds on 4+ or better
- can replace the CCW with one of the following weapons:
........- Power-Fist
........- Chain-Fist (with Terminator armour only)
........- Power-Weapon
........- Lightning Claw
- can replace the BP with one of the following weapons:
........- Kombibolter
........- Bolter-Melter
- can replace the CCW & BP with one of the following weapons:
........- pair of Lightning Claws
- Terminator armour (--> no bike, wings or steed)
- Bike
- steed
........- palanquin of nurgle (+1A, +1W) - counts as 2 in LR
........- Juggernaut of Khorne (+1S, +1A) - counts as 2 in LR
........- disc of Tzeentch (Wings)
........- steed of Slaanesh (cavalry)
- an icon of the gods
- Wings
- personal Icon
Special Rules:
- independent Character
- fearless

- Daemon Prince (no limit in number, you can have 0, 1 or 2)
Stats: Like current statured prince with +1WS, d. strength, d. essence, d mutation, d rune and d. aura.

Cost: 55 points less then what the above gifts would cost you
Wargear :
- one CCW
- daemonic Aura (5+ invulnarable)
Options:
- Wings (5 more then now)
- one chaos icon (same price as now)
- several PSI-powers
- personal icon
Special Rules:
- monstr. Creature
- immune to instant death
- fearless

- Chaos Sorcerer (no limit in number, you can have 0, 1 or 2)
Stats: like current Lt.
Wargear :
- Forceweapon
- daemonic Aura (5+ Invulnerable)
- PSI-Kräfte:
........- Blitz des Tzeentch (S8, DS1)
........- Slaanesh: Lash of Submission
........- Fäulnis des Nurgle (12", trifft jedes Modell des Trupps auf 4+, S3, SVs erlaubt)
........- Strahl des Verderbens (S4, DS3)
........- Warp Time (lässt alle Treffer- und VeSvundungswürfe im NK wiederholen)
Options:
- Terminator armour (--> no bike, wings or steed)
- Bike
- Wings
- steed (see chaos lord)
- one chaos icon
- personal icon
Special Rules:
- UCM
- fearless

- Greater Daemon (takes no HQ-Slot, RIDICULOUS CHEAP!)
Stats: Like Bloodthrister but BS, and attacks unknown, +1 I and only inv save.
Wargear :
- (Flying?)unknown
Options:
- no options
Special Rules:
- Summoning (see completely below)
- monstr. creature
- fearless

ELITE:

- Chaos Rhino, cost as Dark Angels (transport)
Wargear :
- Smoke launcher
- Search light
Options:
- extra armour (cost as Dark angels)
- daemonic possession
- Combibolter
........- can be upgraded to a Bolter-Melter or Bolter-Flamer
Special Rules:
- repair

- Possessed (cheaper than current base cost)
Wargear :
- claws (2 CCW)
- daem. strength (= S5)
- daem. Aura (5+ invulnerable)
Options:
- one chaos icon
- Champion
- Chaos Rhino
Special Rules:
- throw D6 for special abilities (after deployment):
1: Scouts
2: Furious Charge
3: Fleet of foot
4: rending
5: feel no pain
6: Power weapons

- Chosen
Wargear:
- BP + CCW, or Bolter + CCW
- frag and crack grenades
Options:
- an immense amount of options (different CC and ballistic weapons - max. 1 heavy weapon)
- one chaos icon
- Champion
- Chaos Rhino
- Chaos Land Raider
Special Rules:
- infiltrate

- Terminators (squad of 3 to 10 - under 35 Pts)
Wargear:
- Combibolter and power weapon
Options:
- one chaos icon
- each Terminator can be upgraded to a Champion for 10 Pts (--> +1A, nothing else)
- one single terminator can replace his combibolter with a RAC or a heavy flamer
- if the squad consists of 10 members, another terminator can replace his combibolter with a RAC or a heavy flamer
- each terminator can replace his combibolter with one of the following weapons:
........- Bolter-Melter
........- Bolter-Flammer
- each terminator can replace his power weapon with one of the following weapons:
........- powerfist
........- chainfist
- Chaos Land Raider
Special Rules:
- can always deep strike, also when the mission doesn’t explicitly allow it

- Dreadnaught (unchanged to the actual one)
Wargear:
- Cybot-CCW with Combibolter
Options:
- second Cybot-CCW
- heavy weapon (MM, PC, synch. LK, synch. AC, synch. HB)
Special Rules:
- Fire frenzy (slightly changed)


TROOPS:

- Chaos Space Marines
Wargear:
- BP + CCW + Bolter (yes, all 3 weapons --> +1A in CC and all other benefits)
- frag and krak grenades
Options:
- one single CSM can replace his weapons with one of the following weapons:
........- melter
........- plasma gun
........- flamer
- if the squad consists of 10 or more members, another CSM can replace his weapons with the following weapon:
........- melter
........- plasma gun
........- flamer
........- heavy bolter
........- autocannon
........- rocket launcher
........- lascannon
- one chaos icon
- Champion
- the champion can replace his CCW with one of the following weapons:
........- power weapon
........- power fist
- Chaos Rhino
Special Rules:
- unknown

- Khorne Berzerkers (under 24 Pts)
Wargear:
- BP + CCW
- frag and krak grenades
Options:
- 2 Berzerkers can replace their BP with a plasma pistol
- Champion
- Chaos Rhino
Special Rules:
- fearless
- WS5
- furious charge
- +1A

- Plague Marines (cost: 5 points more then current)
Wargear:
- BP + CCW or Bolter + CCW
- blight grenades (when being attacked the attacker doesn’t gain +1A)
Options:
- two Plague Marines can replace their weapons with the following weapon:
........- melter
........- plasma gun
........- flamer
- Champion
- Chaos Rhino
Special Rules:
- fearless
- +1W
- feel no pain

- Noise Marines (under 24 Pts, the cheapest of all the cults)
Wargear:
- BP + CCW oder Bolter + CCW
- frag and krak grenades
Options:
- each Noise Marine can replace his BP or Bolter with a Sonicblaster
..........Sonicblaster: unchanged (probably about 5 pts)
- if the squad consists of 6 members, one single Noise Marine can replace his weapons with a Blastmaster (48", S8, AP3, Explosive (2,5" blast template))
- Champion
..........the champion may get a Doom Siren (S4, flammer, AP3)
- Chaos Rhino
Special Rules:
- fearless
- I5

- Thousand Sons, (same as now)
Wargear:
- Bolter with inferno Bolts (S4, AP3)
- one Sorcerer with force weapon (probably 70 Pts)
...- MUST take at least one PSI-Power (see HQ-entry)
Options:
- Chaos Rhino
Special Rules:
- fearless
- slow and purposeful with only one dice(if accompanied by a sorcerer take a second dice)
- 4+ invulnerable

- lesser daemons (2 points less then furies, don’t take a troops-slot)
Same as current CSM, except +1A, ld10 and save is -/5+
Wargear:
- Claws
Options:
- no options
Special Rules:
- summoning (see completely below)
- 5+ invulnerable

FAST ATTACK:

- RaptorS (under 22 Pts)
Wargear:
- BP + CCW or Bolter + CCW
- frag and krak grenades
Options:
- several special weapons
- one chaos icon
- Champion
Special Rules:
- wings
- deep strike

- Bikes:
Wargear:
- bike
- BP + CCW or Bolter + CCW
- frag and krak grenades
Options:
- several special weapons
- one chaos icon
- Champion
...(icon of nurgle is the most expensive one and allows T4(6) bikers)
- Champion
Special Rules:
- turbo booster

- Chaos Spawn (squad of 1 to 3, about 40 Pts)
Stats: as now but no save (????)
Wargear:
- Claws
Options:
- no options
Special Rules:
- cavalry
- slow and purposeful


HEAVY SUPPORT:

- Chaos Havocs
Wargear:
- BP + CCW oder Bolter + CCW
- frag and krak grenades
Options:
- several special and heavy weapons
- one chaos icon
- Champion
- Chaos Rhino
Special Rules:
- no special rule

- Obliterator Cult (same as now)
Same as now but no d. resilence and -1S, +1 ld.
Wargear:
- Obliterator weapons (only energy based weapons, no projectile weapons; new: Multimelter & plasma cannon)
Options:
- no options
Special Rules:
- fearless
- slow and purposeful
- 5+ invulnerable

- Predator
Wargear:
- Autocannon
Options:
- replace AC with LK in the turret
- HB or LC in side sponsons
- extra armour
- daemonic possession (more expensive than now, see below)
Special Rules:
- no special rules

- Vindicator
Wargear:
- demolisher cannon (S10, AP2, 24" [Wink]
Options:
- dozer blade
- extra armour
- daemonic possession (more expensive than now, see below)
Special Rules:
- no special rules

- Chaos Defiler, WS3, S8(10), A3
Wargear:
- Battle cannon
- RAC (secondary)
- heavy flamer
- daemonic possession (see below)
Options:
- can replace both secondary weapons with 2 CCWs (--> +2A)
Special Rules:
- Cybot Close Combat Weapons
- fleet of foot
- (with the additional 2 CCWa the defiler has 6 attacks while assaulting)

Chaos Land Raider (cheaper than now)
Wargear:
- synch. LS in the side sponsons, HBer
Options:
- extra armour
- daemonic possession (more expensive than now, see below)
Special Rules:
- Assault ramp


Special characters:

- Abaddon
Wargear:
- Daemonic Sword Drachnynen
- Lightning claw
Special Rules:
- Drachnyen is a daemon weapon, but doubles also the strength
- Abaddon may reroll all missed rolls to hit and to wound
- T4(5)
- I5
- +1A
- 4+ Invulnerable
- immune to instant death

- Ahriman
Wargear:
- Force weapon
- several PSI-Powers
Special Rules:
- may use all 3 PSI-Powers each turn (including his force weapon)

- Huron Blackheart
Wargear:
- Powerfist with integrated heavy flamer
- Hamadyra (provides PSI-power "Warp Time" [Wink]
Special Rules:
- Warp Time: allows to reroll all missed rolls to hit and to wound in CC

- Typhus
Wargear:
- Manreaper
- PSI-Power “Nurgles Rot” (works like the actual pandemic staff)
Special Rules:
- manreaper: daemonic weapon, but works additionally as a force weapon

- Kharn
As now but +1 S and unknown attacks/BS. Looks like save is now 3/5+
Wargear:
- gorechild (always hits on 2+ in CC, 2D6 for armour penetration)
Special Rules:
- immune to all PSI-Attacks
- furious charge

- Lucius
Wargear:
- unknown
Special Rules:
- unknown

- Fabius Bile
Wargear:
- Xyclos Needler (CCW, wounds always on 2+)
Special Rules:
- can mutate CSM

Icons:
If a squad or a character get an icon, the following bonus is gained:

Chaos glory: reroll all missed Ld-tests
Khorne: +1A
Nurgle: +1T (T4 becomes T4(5) etc.)
Slaanesh: +1I
Tzeentch: 5+ invulnerable (or if invulnerable already exists, add +1 to it - so a 5+ invulnerable becomes a 4+ invulnerable)


MISCELLANEOUS:

- Summoning lesser deamons (troops)
For deamons each icon works like a teleport homer. Daemons may attack after summoning but may not move.
- Summoning greater deamons (HQ-choice)
When the deamon is available, replace an aspiring champion with it. If there is no aspiring champion, the deamon is lost. Daemons may attack after summoning but may not move.
- Daemonic Possession
A Tank equipped with this ignores all “crew shaken” and “stunned” results. If it does so, the BS goes down by one (so BS4 becomes BS3). A tank with deamonic possession may still transport troops.
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[GabBorg]

Niente culti, non si potranno più fare le varie mono legioni, sarà il regno dell'indiviso con i demoni praticamente tutti uguali!

CA**OOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOO!!!!

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[GabBorg]

large Armybox, 1. September
-- Codex
-- 1 Chaos Space Marine Lord/Sorceror
-- 5 Termis
-- 10 Chaos Space Marines
-- 5 Possesed
-- 2 Spawn
-- 12 Khorne Berserkers
-- 1 Defiler
-- 1 Chaos vehicle sprue
-- 2 Chaos Space Marine addon sprue

160 euro..

il 25 agosto invece esce quella piccola..

messo così è una gran bazza... ma sono ancora rumors
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[GabBorg]

Te pareva che alla GW facessero qualcosa di conveniente?! Il bundle sopra citato è levitato a 250 euro!!!

E sembra che sarà la nuova fascia dei bundleoni futuri.
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[InqBantoo]

250???

e il target sarebbe quello dei bimbetti???
ma quale genitore spende 250 neuri in una botta per un cinno... e per dei pupazzetti...
vabbè che ormai si regalano cellulari e console per le feste...

aiuto...
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[ivan]

Così ad occhio il contenuto dovrebbe costare sui 270-280 Euro, a 160 sarebbe stato davvero troppo bazza
Ad ogni modo, a 250 secondo me non è conveniente, a meno che tutto il contenuto vi serva, e lo usiate tutto in lista.

[ivan]

E' uscito il boxone in pre-order:

http://it.games-workshop.com/storefront/store.it?do=Individual&code=02120102023&orignav=10

€ 180,00

[Fabio il Campione]

be', 180 e' una cifra gia' piu' appetibile per tutta quella roba!
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Fabio il campione

In ogni esercito l'equilibrio è la chiave per il successo. Ogni elemento deve lavorare in armonia, cosicché l'efficacia dell'esercito è maggiore della somma delle sue parti - De Tactica Imperium

[GabBorg]

Si e come al solito ci sono i berserker di Khorne. Mi spiegate perchè devono essere sempre nel bundle. Uno che vuole fare nurgle li ha sul groppone senza usarli!!!!
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[InqBantoo]

come ti dicevo a voce, perchè "nurgle" non esiste +, o meglio non esistono + gli eserciti SOLO di un demone, ma solo misti "indiviso".
quindi schieri tutto se vuoi e i berserker non sono niente male in CaC!!!

almeno per ora... finchè non esce il "Codex:Demoni" o come straciuffolo si chiamerà...
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