Quinta edizione - Le regole
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InqBantoo
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 Messaggio Inviato: Lun Apr 28, 2008 16:00:51    Oggetto:
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se lo dici te... almeno prima colpivi con la AB, ora colpire è fantascienza, scatteri SEMPRE!!!
mah...
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InqBantoo
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 Messaggio Inviato: Mar Apr 29, 2008 10:41:23    Oggetto:
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umm si parlava di quando??? wink
http://us.games-workshop.com/games/40k/extras/countdown.htm

maranzi come pochi...
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 Messaggio Inviato: Lun Mag 19, 2008 11:47:42    Oggetto:
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altre regole...
mooolto carine quelle sull'attacco in profondità e le riserve!
TUTTI I MODELLI CONTESTANO OBIETTIVI?????????? questa mi sembra una cacata... sembrava fossero solo le truppe e ora mettono tutti????? azz...


* You may ‘Run’ after deepstriking
* Deepstrike Mishap Table (roll when you scatter onto other models or off table) is 1-2: Dead, 3-4: Opponent places your models down, 5-6: Units get placed into reserve again.
* Turn 5 your reserves automatically come on (unless they were placed back in Reserve)
* Swarms have an amended USR to state they are never scoring.
* All models regardless of whether they are scoring or not can still contest objectives

BOXED SET
Yet more information points to a very cut down rulebook that only allows play with the included models. The transport rules for example are not included, and none of the basic missions at all.

Ultramarines

* 1 Marine Captain with Powersword. Very ornate with a large cape many tassels. He amazingly has hair!
* 10 Marine Tactical Squad. Sergeant with Bolt pistol and CCW. Missile Launcher, Flamer. ~the old school classic
* 1 Dreadnought: Multimelta and Stormbolter.
* 5 Terminators: 1 Sergeant with Powersword. The squad has Stormbolters and Powerfists with no heavy weapon provided. ~I believe you get some spare heavy weapons with the standard Terminator boxed set so making 2 squads should still work out normally
* The marines are described as exceptional and you will have a difficult time telling them apart from the fully poseable models. Skuttlebutt says these have tactical symbols and and Ultramarine symbol molded onto them.


Orks

* Ork Warboss is VERY LARGE. He’s armed with a twin-linked shoota and Klaw. He is holding his power klaw out to the side pointing with one of the claws.
* 20 Ork boyz split into two 10-boy mobs. Each has a big shoota. Reportedly indistinguishable from the regular ork boyz.
* 5 Nobs: All are armed with slugga & choppa. Large models.
* 3 Deff Koptas: AMAZING! The standouts of the boxed set. They are described to be very much like the one depicted in the ork codex. Standard orky construction with spare parts and bitz all over. State of the art detail for snap-fit models.

inoltre:

da warseer arrivano nuovi rumors, da parte di gente che dice di aver visto il librone, si tratta sempre di rumors però quindi prendeteli cum grano salis smile.gif

-le armi a sagoma scatterano sempre di 2d6 meno la BS del tiratore (ad esempio un leman che fa 7 con i due dadi avrò uno scatter di 4). Interessante a questo punto l'esarca dei tetri.

-le creature mostruose sparano con 2 armi.

-i trasporti è confermato che potranno portare ogni unità (con le dovute restrizioni ad esempio no termy su rhino).

-gli squadroni di veicoli che hanno un veicolo immobilizzato lo considerano distrutto (viene abbandonato)

-le armi psioniche causano morte immediata. Quindi abilità/equip che la annullano funzionano contro di esse.

-gli infiltratori si possono usare come ora, oppure tenere in riserva, quando entrano, lo fanno dai lati del campo. 1-2 lato sinistro, 3-4 lato destra 5-6 lato a scelta. Quando escono dai lati si possono mettere in qualunque punto del lato, anche nell'area di schieramento avversaria.

- dovrebbe essere possibile speronare i veicoli.

-i modelli in deep strike possono correre. Se deviano fuori dal tavolo o su unità nemiche non sono distrutti, ma si tira il dado per vedere che succede.

- solo le unità di fanteria della scelta truppe possono prendere gli obiettivi, ma molte altre unità possono contestarli, ovvero impedire di prenderli.

-gli aeromobili hanno un save se muovono, non è chiaro se sia 5+ tra 6 e 12 e 4+ se muovi di più o 4+ direttamente a partire da 7 inch di movimento. I veicoli veloci muovono fino a 18, gli aeromobili fino a 24.

-le armi a fo4 o inferiore si considerano difensive. Confermato. Però sembra che le armi d'assalto si possano comunque sparare anche se hanno forza superiore e il veicolo muove.
Giocatori Eldar controllate le caratteristiche del cann. shuriken e iniziate a dance2.gif se viene confermato wink.gif

- come già si sapeva le unità potranno marciare di d6, ma non potranno assaltare in questo caso, forse anche la fanteria volante potrà marciare, quindi muoveranno 12+d6 (forse gli assaltatori Sm si vedranno più spesso in campo).

-le moto che turbano hanno un cover save, quindi i flamer e company lo negano.

-un nuovo sistema di allocazione delle ferite. Se subisco meno ferite del numero di modelli della mia squadra, tolgo le perdite come ora (decido io chi togliere). Se le ferite sono di più si procede in modo diverso. Ad esempio, un unità di Sm da 10 con sergente, lascannon e flamer subisce 15 ferite. 1 DEVE andare sul sergente, una sul lascannon, l'altra sul flamer, le restanti 12 le dò ai marine normali. Il principio è che se le ferite sono più dei modelli tutti prendono almeno una ferita, e tiro i save separatamente nel caso dei modelli con arma speciale. Vale sia nel tiro che in CaC.

-il rending funziona in questo modo, il 6 funziona sul ferire, contro i veicoli funziona come ora, ma il secondo dado è un d3.

-la linea di vista sarà reale.

- i pericoli del warp causano una normale ferita, non a fo 6.

Ricordate che sono tutti rumors prima di esultare/strapparvi i capelli mi raccomando biggrin.gif

dal punto di vista del BG sembra che ci sarà un accurata timeline, dove verso la fine si dice che i tecnopreti hanno scoperto dei malfunzionamenti nel trono d'oro che non sono in grado di riparare (EHH??? povero imperatore ) oltre al fatto che la luce dell'astronomicon si affievolisce sempre più, e le comunicazioni con sistemi distanti come macragge stanno diventando sempre più difficoltose.

Insomma, l'Imperium è nei guai (ancora più di ora).

Che ne pensate dei nuovi rumors?

EDIT: ho aggiunto un altro pò di rumors a mano a mano che traducevo wink2.gif

-altro paio di cosette, cambiano alcune regole speciali, nemico favorito permette di ripetere il tiro per colpire, presa ferma potrebbe non esserci più.

-tutte le unità che vengono assaltate muovono di 6 i loro modelli verso gli avversari PRIMA che inizino gli attacchi. Per questo cambia contrattacco, se si viene assaltati e si ha contrattaco si fa un test di LD, se viene superato si ottiene un A aggiuntivo.

-quando un trasporto viene distrutto, gli occupanti prendono un A a fo 4 e devono fare un pinning test (niente più impigliati sembra).
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 Messaggio Inviato: Lun Mag 19, 2008 16:05:53    Oggetto:
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InqBantoo ha scritto:
altre regole...
TUTTI I MODELLI CONTESTANO OBIETTIVI?????????? questa mi sembra una cacata... sembrava fossero solo le truppe e ora mettono tutti????? azz...


Tutti i modelli contestano (quindi lo negano all'avversario), ma solo le truppe tengono gli obiettivi.

Ha una sua logica, bisogna vedere come sarà all'atto pratico.
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 Messaggio Inviato: Mer Mag 21, 2008 09:57:18    Oggetto:
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Altri rumours:

Citazione:
Hey guyyss!! Had another session with the book today, and played a few games, i think i can now answer all of your questions.

First off, assault weapons cannot fire like defensive weapons, neither can template weapons. No distinction is made in the vehicle rules.
The rear armour rule is there. When assaulting a vehicle in CC you hit the rear armour.
If you assault a vehicle in your go and dont destroy it, you may attack it in the next CC phase, ie your enemies, if the vehicle does not move. You can be shot at by the enemy however as you are not considered locked in combat.

Skimmer rules: Fast skimmers may move 6 inches and fire all weapons, or 12 inches and fire 1 main and all defensive weapons. Skimmers may not move and fire all weapons, or move up to 6 and fire one main and all defensive weapons.

Fast SKimmers may move flat out ie 12-24,fast vehicles may move flat out 12-18, and gain a 4+ obscured cover save. There is no save for a skimmer moving less than 12!!!!! These are cover saves, so cannot be gained against template weapons, crack shot, markerlights reducing it. etc. Works like a normal cover save. Can by fortuned btw.

All vehicles are hit automatically in CC if they didnt move, on 4's if they moved up to 6, 6's over this. This means skimmers that dont move are hit automatically!! on the rear armour.

Smoke launchers give you a 4+ cover save for next enemy shooting phase.

Blast weapons that get hot: Roll a dice for each weapon before firing. On a 1 you do not fire and take one saveable wound.
Rapid fire gets hot is gone. You only overheat on 1's to hit, not 2's.

Feel no pain cannot be used against instant death, AP1 or AP2 weapons, power weapons, rending that rolls a 6 to wound, etc.

Twin linked weapons. Twin linked blasts, you must choose to reroll the scatter and the 2D6 or none. Twin linked gets hot only overheat if the second roll is also a 1.

Snipers: always wound on a 4+, rending, strenght 3 against vehicles. THis means you use your BS to hit.

Scoring units: all units from your troops allocations on the FOC are scoring, unless they are a vehicle, swarm or have another special rule that specifies they cannot Ie tyranid gaunts who are lurking. The unit is scoring, so one man out of a 10 man tactical squad is still scoring. ANY UNIT may contest objectives.

All units that are not vehicles can run, with the following exceptions :Bikes, Jetbikes, Artillery. Walkers can run. This means tomb spiders, talos' etc can run...hmmm.

Ramming does not have a maximum strength. Nowhere in the book does it state that ramming is limited to strength 10. A vyper with star engines can generate a strength 12 hit tongue.gif it takes a strength 12 hit too btw.

Wound allocation is simple. You do it unit by unit, all shots of one unit on its target.
So using the example above the 3 tyranid warriors, 1 with venom cannon, 1 with devourer, 1 with rending claws are wounded by 5 bolter shots, 1 lascannon shot and 1 plasma gun shot. The player controlling the warriors allocates the 5 bolter shots first, placing them one at a time. You can only allocate a second wound once each model in the squad takes one. The warriors have a 4+ save. Two take 2 bolter hits and 1 takes 1 bolter hit. Now the plasma goes on the warrior who was hit by one bolter shot, and the lascannon on any warrior of the players choosing.

Now roll saves. The first warrior who has a venom cannon is only hit with 2 bolter shells and makes 1 armour save. The second warrior is hit by 2 bolter shells and a lascannon shell. he fails 2 saves and dies. The lascannon hit is wasted. The third warrior makes the save from the one bolter hit, and takes one wound from the plasma.

I was used to the system after one game. Its easy to learn. Works the same in combat also.

Combat: Units that are charged get a free 6 inch counter assault move to get them into base to base if possible. Casualties can be removed from anywhere in the combat, not just the 2inch killzone. Models who are able to attack at the start, before any dice are rolled, still get to attack, regardless that all the models in the killzone were killed before they got to attack.
Combat results: Models killed vs Models killed. today in my game my conscript platoon was charged by 5 terminators and a wolf lord. They killed 12 conscripts with no reply. I lost the combat by 12, but i am fearless due to Gaunt, so i take another 12 armour saves!!!

If i wasnt fearless i wound have autorun, except on a double 1 for insane heroism.

You cannot consolidate into combat. At all. The rule is consolidate cannot take you within 1 inch of enemy models. My guard gunline beat up spacewolfs, because they murdered one squad at a time then got rapid fired in the face.

Mission summary: All missions use the victory conditions of:

on a D3:
1: Capture. D3+2 loot counters, deployed as per 4th edition.
2: Recon style. 1 objective in opponents deployment zone.
3: pitched battle. Killpoints. Didnt play this so only know its killpoints.

If the game is tied at the end, a tactical draw is called. You then consult VICTORY POINTS! Exactly the same as 4th edition. Its in the back of the book.

Battlefield deployment. on a D3
1:Pitched battle. Standard 12 inch setup long board edges.
2: Cleanse. Standard cleanse setup
3: Dawn of war. Half the battlefield.

In each, the players roll off. Whoever wins gets to say who chooses sides, sets up first etc. I won the roll and forced my opponent to choose, but then he had to set up his entire army first.

In the Dawn of war mission, it follows the same pattern, but the players only set up 1 HQ and 2 Troop units, the rest arriving in reserve.

Moral tests are the same as 4th, if you suffer 25% or more in one shooting phase. However all modifyers are gone. No -1 for under half etc. Pinning is done unit by unit, so if you shoot 2 units of scouts at the same unit or 8 marines. and kill one model each with your sniper rifles, the marines wound half to take 2 pinning tests AND a moral test if they were not pinned. Was not funny on my poor guardsmen.

IC's are in a unit if they are within coherency of the unit, so no more hiding within one inch. When they fight, they are treated as a man in the squad, so you can attack in the 2inch killzone. But you can be hit too!

All units get a 6 inch counterattack move before blows are struck, and any units with the counterattack rule pass a LD test and get +1 attack. This happened to my poor command section..

the speeds are
Combat speed:6 inches
Cruising speed: 12 inches
Flat out:18-24 (depending) 36 in the case of star engines.

Fast skimmers get a 4+ save at flat out speed, but can shoot no weapons.


Sono perplesso sul CaC:

1) Non c'e' + la kill zone.....e questo in parte è positivo
2) Tutti i modelli rispondono agli attacchi proprio perchè non c'e' la kill zone! Quindi gli orki e i TN sono uber facilitati negli assalti!
3) Tutte le unità che subiscono assalti hanno la mossa di contrattacco gratis di 6 pollici!! Ancora gli orki e i TN ci vanno a nozze!
4) L'iniziativa quindi servirà "solo" a sfoltire il numero di attacchi, non + ad evitarli "pulendo" la kill zone....ahi ahi i miei DE prendono una stangata! Spero nel nuovo codex. Mi immagino la scena con una mia unità di 8 furie contro una mattonella da 20 orki o TN.....prima potevo contare sulla kill zone e un buon movimento di assalto mi faceva sopravvivere....con queste regole o faccio anch'io le mattonelle o è un suicidio.

frown
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Sisma
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 Messaggio Inviato: Mer Mag 21, 2008 11:53:19    Oggetto:
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Bè, anche il Caos non se la cava male, avendo la dimensione delle unità 5-20... cool
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 Messaggio Inviato: Mer Mag 21, 2008 14:52:31    Oggetto:
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E poi ho dimenticato di citare il fatto che dopo un Cac non si consoliderà più, niente più Cac-seriali !!! cry cry cry cry

Mi nerfano i DE a tutto spiano..... dopo ogni assalto saranno vulnerabilissimi!!!! cry
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InqBantoo
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 Messaggio Inviato: Mer Mag 21, 2008 15:58:57    Oggetto:
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già questa non la capisco... era l'unica debolezza della guardia e dei tau... ora dopo avere macellato una squadra esca si rimane in balia del fuoco!!! uff...
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 Messaggio Inviato: Mer Mag 21, 2008 16:00:00    Oggetto:
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IO APPROVO, PROPRIO PER QUELLO CHE DICE TAMBU.

Un esercito da fuoco con la nuova edizione è svantaggiatissimo, almeno in questo modo ha qualche possibilità.
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 Messaggio Inviato: Mer Mag 21, 2008 17:27:39    Oggetto:
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Tau sgravati? incredibile... lol
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 Messaggio Inviato: Gio Mag 22, 2008 08:39:10    Oggetto:
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non sono così convinto che siano svantaggiati dalla nuova edizione.. vedremo...
magari dando una botta da una parte e una dall'altra hanno equilibrato. speriamo!! wink
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 Messaggio Inviato: Ven Giu 06, 2008 12:12:22    Oggetto:
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un po' di commenti da BOLS, visto che hanno messo le mani sul manualone nuovo.
Molto interessante, anche se lunghetto.


So our LGS got in the 5th Edition preview copy and what a time we have had! As you can see from those pics, we've rolled out some of our favorite toys (included mkerr's new Macharius Vulcan) and put the new rules through the ringer.

Continuing on the heels of my earlier thread of 5th edition thoughts, I figured you would want to hear some more about my impressions after seeing and playing several more games.

1) Maneuvering: I touched on this last time, but lets go over it again in detail. Learning to maneuver to minimize intervening friendlies to maximize your firepower, while presenting as many interleaving units to your opponent (including his own troops) is a key skill which must be learned. You are going to force yourself to relearn how to move your units to give the enemy as few 4+ cover saves as possible while maximizing your own armies 4+ saves. Its a delicate dance and is much trickier than it seems.

Right on up there in this department are tall units blazing away over slightly shorter ones (such as fire support dreadnoughts firing over rhinos they are advancing behind), as well as the tricks that you can pull off with any unit which can move in the assault phase like eldar jetbikes, and tau jetpacks. Running with key units at the end of the your armies firing phase can also help.

2) True Los: This one is easy to learn but hard to master. You get used to it after only a few games, but boy are most LGS's going to need to do a "terrain week" pretty soon. Most places I've been to have way to little full LoS blocking terrain to give vehicles something to get obscured behind, and a way to much area terrain that now doesn't block LoS. The results are tons of cover saves for infantry, and dead vehicles. I predict a tidal-wave of tall hill, solid impassible forest/hedge, and zigurrat production in the near future.


3) Cover Saves: These are just everywhere now, and as such, have given a huge boost to anything that can ignore them. Things such as crack shot, and template weapons and the like are vastly improved. Tau airbursting flechettes, heavy flamers, and the like are to be feared. I would like to make a special note of the IG Hellhound which is the new bane of the open/area terrain tabletop. It only takes one game of a Hellhound firing through multiple forests to incinerate groups of Aspect Warriors on the far side with no cover saves allowed before folks start working on solid walls and other such impassible cover.

4) Speed: The game is much more freewheeling now, with run giving lots of units a new lease on life. Lots of dog slow units which had to plod across the table or just were useless if caught out of position like Striking Scorpions, IG Heavy Weapon Teams, and even Ogryns can now get in there much faster and reposition with minimal loss of time.

5) Assaults: Fast, brutal, and deadly as all get out. Dedicated high quality assault units such as Assault terminators, banshees and the like will routinely completely destroy their target units ans sweep them with huge negative Ld modifiers (we saw several -9 Ld tests just tonight). The skill is not getting the key units into assault, but to hit an area of the enemy army en masse so they cannot effectively recover and easily blow the assault force away as it is caught in the open. Unsupported assaults are short lived and doomed to ultimate failure.

6) Missions: The new scoring units status really shines a light on Troops. Their ability to contest down to the last model is spectacular, and lots of maligned units such as guardian jetbikes, full sized IG infantry platoons and the like are now worth their weight in gold. Secondarily the flanking ability gained by any infiltrator or scout unit turns a lot of average units such as sentinels and war walkers into much more flexible and threatening foes.
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 Messaggio Inviato: Gio Giu 12, 2008 13:29:42    Oggetto:
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Una spiegazione moooolto chiara secondo me sulle principali differenze fra 4° e 5° ed:

Citazione:
The best way to learn something new is to dive in! If
you don’t have the time to play an entire game of
5th Edition Warhammer 40,000, this table is designed
to illustrate the key changes between 4th Edition and
5th Edition. As you read over this list of changes,
refer to the table set-up for examples of how to
apply the new rules.
Line of Sight
• Warhammer 40,000 5th Edition uses “true line of
sight” which means that if your models can see a
target (and are in range) they can shoot at it.
• Models in a shooters own unit do not block line of
sight when shooting at a target, as they have been
drilled to stay out of each other’s line of fire.
• If target models are partially obscured by terrain,
they will get a cover save (the value of the save is
determined by the type of cover).
• If target models are partially obscured by another
unit (friend or foe), the target will get a 4+
cover save.
Take a quick look at our set-up to determine who can
shoot and what kind of cover saves might apply to
various targets.
Running and Running with Fleet Units
• In the Shooting Phase, units may choose
to Run instead of shooting.
• If a unit chooses to Run they can move
up to d6” in any direction.
• Units that choose to Run may NOT however,
launch an Assault in the Assault Phase.
• If a unit that has the Universal Special Rule Fleet,
then they may choose to Run in the Shooting Phase
AND launch an Assault in the Assault Phase.
Take a quick look at our set-up to determine the
best movement choices to be made by the various
troops on the table.
Wound Allocation
• In 4th Edition, players whose units suffered
shooting wounds got to choose which models
were removed from a unit after armor saves were
rolled. This meant they could essentially protect
sergeants and heavy weapon troopers from
incoming fire. This led to problematic units like
huge mobz of Ork Boyz concealing an untouchable
Nob with a power klaw.
• In 5th Edition, wounds are allocated before armor
saves are rolled and each model in a unit must
suffer a wound before anyone suffers a second
wound. If any models are different (different
weapons, equipment, stats etc.) these wounds are
saved separately.
Take a look at our set-up and see how quickly you
can take out the specialists from the squad.
All Out Assaults
• In 4th Edition a player could choose to only assault
two or three models in an enemy unit, killing them
and leaving no-one to strike back. This led to
sergeants or special weapon troopers being picked
out and large mobz forced to flee by much
smaller units.
• In 5th Edition, once all of the Assaulting unit has
engaged their target unit, the members of the
target unit that are not engaged must move up
to 6” to engage as many of the Assaulting unit
as possible.
• Note that the Universal Special Rule Counter-Attack
has changed too. It now gives a bonus +1 attack to
the unit being assaulted (if they first pass a
Leadership test).
Take a look at or set-ups and see if you’d make the
right choice about which unit to assault.
Consolidation
• In 4th Edition a unit could destroy an enemy unit in
combat and then consolidate into a fresh enemy
unit, handily avoiding any chance of being shot at.
This led to large static gun lines being chewed up
by relatively small units of combat specialists.
• In 5th Edition, units that win a fight and
consolidate can only move to within 1” of an
enemy model. This means that there’ll be no
more line-rolling from small combat units or
powerful characters.
Take a look at our set-up and see which direction
you’d think of consolidating after crushing
your enemy!
Blast Weapons and Template Weapons
• The main change for Ordnance, Blast, and Template
weapons is that there are no more partials. If your
model is touched by the template it is hit!
• In 4th Edition, firing a Blast weapon meant that
you placed the template hole over a target model
and rolled to hit. If you missed, no damage
was done.
• In 5th Edition, firing a Blast weapon means that
you place the template hole over a target model
and roll a scatter die and 2D6. If you roll a HIT, the
shot is on target. If you roll an arrow, the Blast
moves in that direction a total of the 2D6” less the
BS of the model firing. This means against large
units (like Ork mobz) you have a very good chance
of always hitting at least one model.
Take a look at our set-up and roll a few dice. You’ll
soon get an idea of the devastation that can be
wrought by Blast and Template weapons.
A number of other rules have been tweaked and
will also affect your army. Chat with a staff members
to learn more about the latest evolution of
Warhammer 40,000.
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InqBantoo
OZO Addicted


Registrato: 31/07/06 09:28
Messaggi: 3651
Residenza: Fortezza Crociata Sfonda'anus

 Messaggio Inviato: Lun Giu 16, 2008 16:58:37    Oggetto:
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ummm sono perplesso per il monolito...
queste dovrebbero essere le nuove regole per i danni.

da tilea:
"1-scosso
2-stordito
3-arma distrutta
4-immobilizzato
5-veicolo distrutto
6-veicolo esploso

I superficiali hanno un -2 sul tiro della tabella, quindi al massimo fanno un immobilizzato
Le armi a Vp1 danno un +1 quindi distruggi al 4+ su pesanti, mentre quelle a vp - danno un -1

I risultati rimangono quelli della 4° edizione"

quindi, ignorando i termici è IMPOSSIBILE distruggere un monolito a meno di un 6+ con un cannone laser seguito da un 5+, con un termico devi fare due 6 di fila!!
non ricordo altre armi a Fo9... forse il cannone tau delle hammerhead?
già ora è quasi impossibile tirarlo giu dopo sarà DEVASTANTE.
liste doppio monolito a gogo anche a 1500!!!

qua il post in merito su tilea...
http://www.forumgwtilea.it/forum/index.php?showtopic=50553
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ivan
Site Admin


Registrato: 30/06/06 19:53
Messaggi: 2379
Residenza: I tuoi incubi!

 Messaggio Inviato: Lun Giu 16, 2008 17:20:28    Oggetto:
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Beh, i necron hanno cmq dei bei problemi col resto del codex, perlomeno hanno il Monolito che regge un pò di più.

Però non escluderei in FAQ novità "sconvolgenti", potrebbero cambiare la regola del metallo vivente, e dare vantaggi (ritorneremo=insensibile al dolore) e paria quindi insensibili al dolore, e qualcosa sul Gauss che con la V diventa inutile.

Certo che se facessero cose del genere con una faq, alla faccia........uhm....più probabile che facciano faq inutili stile DA allora. asd
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